Ken Ham: Evolution & Millions of Years Ideology has Eternal Significance

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Hey, guys, before we get started, I just wanted to let you know we are doing a giveaway for a free digital copy of Ken Ham's new book, The Lie. To enter, all you need to do is keep an eye out for a post in the Moms of Master Books Facebook group and in the Master Books app for a post linking to this episode.

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Links will be in the description. All right. Enjoy the episode. Here at Master Books, we are dedicated to help you disciple your children and develop a strong faith as a family with pro Bible, homeschool curriculum, and beautiful books that honor God as creator. We offer online courses to help your family worship and serve God. You will also find morning baskets and devotionals for the whole family.

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Our mission is ink on paper to touch eternity, and we have been publishing Christian books for this purpose since 1975. Find your Pro Bible homeschool curriculum at Master books.com. So, Ken, today we have the privilege of talking to you about a legacy book, The Lie The Unraveling, The Myth of Evolution Millions of Years. This is an updated edition of not one, but two different versions, right?

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Yes. In fact, the book was originally written back in 1986, so probably before you were born or something. I wish that, it was published in 1987 and it's been in print ever since, and it's really the whole core message. It's the basic message of the Answers and Genesis ministry, which means the creation apologetics ministry. And that core message has never changed.

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You know, it's interesting. We published it back in 1987, as I said, the 400,000 imprint. And I did do a revision in 2012, but then just did a major, update revision, adding in new illustrations, expanding the book. You know, it's interesting when you actually go back and read, you know, the original manuscript that you're going through and you're saying, I used those same arguments today.

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Well, I use that argument today. Well, I'm using that argument today. Well, I'm using that argument today. And you say, how come I'm using the same arguments? Well, that's very simple to answer because the Bible doesn't change the basic biblical arguments never change because God's Word doesn't change. One of the sad things that we see happening today is people changing their position on the Bible because of what's happening in the culture, instead of standing on God's Word and judging the culture in accord with what God's Word says.

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And so when it came to reading through the manuscript and saying, you know, I think it's time for an update, because back when I first wrote this book, the word woke me. I woke up from sleep. And how the word woke has different meanings and have to add the word woke in and talk about, you know, the woke culture and what that means.

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You know, we're a non woke organization and we have non woke attractions like the Ark Encounter and the Creation Museum. Then the other thing is that, you know, back when I wrote that book, if you said to somebody LGBT that would think, oh, letters of the alphabet. Well now LGBTQ I plus whatever other letters mean something very, very different.

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And my point is that the culture has changed. And because the culture has changed, I needed to add those aspects of what we need to be talking about into the book and expand the book that way. The other thing is, you know, over the years, your message does mature more. The basic arguments always stay the same when they're based on the Bible, but your way of understanding things tends to expand, and God gives you more wisdom and insight.

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And so you able to, I think, even be more powerful in the way that you present the arguments. And so I went through this book and expanded it, revised it, made it very culturally up to date and added in even a lot more, I think, powerful arguments in regard to the Scripture to deal with the cultural issues of our day.

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And it really is the core message of our ministry, because our ministry advances in Genesis really emphasizes biblical authority and the gospel. And there's been a particular attack on biblical authority in our time that is really began in the, in the, late 18th century and then early 19th century with an attack on God's word, particularly in Genesis from naturalism.

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That's when naturalism started to raise its ugly head in a big way in our Western world, the idea that you have to explain everything by natural processes never let you get rid of God. And of course, the idea of millions of years came out of naturalism and the idea of Darwinian evolution. Biological evolution came out of naturalism. And, you know, we have cosmological evolution, geological evolution, biological evolution, and all based on the idea of millions of years.

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And it's all an attack on the authority of God's Word in Genesis. And the reason that this is really important is, number one, if you as a Christian, take ideas from outside of Scripture and add them into Scripture in Genesis, ideas of millions of years and evolution, it unlocks a door where you're really saying to people, you can start outside of Scripture, so why not now take man's reinterpretation of marriage and that gay marriage or the gender issue into Scripture and so on, which is exactly what we see happening.

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In fact, we are down to less than 9% generation Z attending church. And a lot of it has to do with the fact they've gone through an anti-God education system. You know, public schools, we call them secular schools. People think secular is neutral. Secular is not neutral. You're either for Christ or against morning light or darkness. I think it'd be good for people to use the term anti-God instead of secular and say, my kids go to the anti-God education system five hours a day, shocks people into the reality of what's really happening.

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We've had generations come through that system where they've shown God our Bible, our prayer, our creation, and they teach that we can explain everything by natural processes. Everything is millions of years old when it comes to the age of the earth. And the universe and life go back by evolution and it's fact. And unfortunately, those that were going to church, went to their pastors and Sunday school teachers and others for answers.

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And we're told you can believe in evolution millions of years. That's what the majority have told them, not all, but the majority. And they realize that if the history in Genesis is not true, how can the rest be true? And eventually they walk away from the church, and then they build a worldview consistent with the foundation they have of naturalism.

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That means man's word, not God's Word. And out of that comes moral relativism, which we see permeating our culture. And that's why I wrote this book, because it's it's really to deal with the fact that Genesis one 211 is the foundation for everything. It's the foundation for our doctrine. It's the foundation for the rest of the Bible. It's the foundation for a Christian worldview.

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It's the foundation for everything. And when that foundation is taken away, I like Psalm 11 three says, if the foundations are destroyed, what can the righteous do? If you take out the foundation of a house, the house collapses. You take out the foundation of Genesis one 211, then the rest collapses. Our Christian worldview doctrine, everything because Genesis one 211 is the foundation for everything.

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And that's why it was important to deal with this. And the other thing I just say to and that is that back in the in the 70s, when I was first speaking on this, in fact, I gave my first ever apologetics talk in 1975. And so in 2025, there'll be the 50th anniversary of my, teaching on this topic.

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My first ever presentation on this. And when I was starting to speak in churches and other places, one of the things I was saying was, look, if God's people don't take a stand on God's Word beginning in Genesis, eventually you'll see things like homosexual, behavior, gay, gay marriage, you see all these increasing abortion, the gender issues.

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And, and people will say to me sometimes how come back then in the 70s, you could say that now we see it happening today. And they say it's sort of like, you know, it's like a prophecy. It's like being a prophet. They say, no, it's it's not hard to understand. Think about it. If you're foundation is not the absolute authority of God's Word and it's man's word.

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What does the Bible tell us? Judges 2125 when there's no Cain to tell them what to do, they all do what is right in their own eyes. If people have the wrong foundation of man's word, moral relativism results. And so everything is subjective. And that's what we see happening when you start from God's Word in Genesis, there's only two genders because God made male and female.

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There's only one marriage. God created marriage. So he's the one that defines it, and it's one man and one woman. We know that humans are made in the image of God. And right from fertilization. We are human beings made in the image of God. So abortion is murder. It's killing a human being. And so it goes on.

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So once you know how to think foundationally and argue foundationally, then you can understand what's happening in our culture and what we're to do about it. Well, I love that you're talking about foundations, because one of your chapters in here is about the crumbling foundations. And I wanted to talk just a few minutes about, in your opinion, what are the most urgent steps that Christian leaders should take to begin rebuilding the foundations?

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And with everything going on in the world, people can look around and just be absolutely undone that we are where we are. But as Christians, we take courageous action. And so what courageous actions should leaders take now? Well, there's a lot of things I can say in react to that, Jennifer. But, you know, we did some research, a number of years ago and published a book, three master books called Already Gone and that was published in 2009.

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And the research we did was on why young people are leaving the church, because George Barna Christian research had shown very clearly two thirds of young people leaving the church by the time they reached college age, very few returning. So we did research, and actually I confirmed that that was so. But we also went further and asked, you know, why did you leave the church?

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And overwhelmingly, the response was they didn't get answers to their question. And what that really points to is the fact that they weren't being taught apologetics. And there's been a big lack of teaching of apologetics, in our churches. And by apologetics, I mean, first Peter 315 states, always be ready to give an answer or a defense, for for your faith, for your Christian faith.

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And the word answer, a defense comes from the Greek word apple, a give in which we get a word apologetics. It means to give a logical reason, defense of the faith. And the problem is a lot of times in our homes and in our churches and our Sunday school programs, Bible school programs, and so on, we teach Bible stories.

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You know what I mean by Bible stories during the great feast feeding 5000. Paul is right. He's on the cross. Now. We want to teach those as as true accounts. And by the way, the word story has come to to me in fairy tale. And I keep challenging Christians. Look, we have atheists out there telling kids, oh, the Bible is a book of stories, whereas atheists teach real stuff, real history.

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We need to emphasize the Bible is the real history. And it's true. And so I encourage people don't use the word story anymore because, you know, atheists have hijacked that word to mean something else. And today, in modern vernacular, it means fairy tale. And the Bible is a book of history has come under great attack. And I'm saying all this to just a long sort of answer to your question.

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But, you know, I went to a church once and the youth pastor said to me, look, you know what young people are like today? They're very short attention span. They won't listen to our teaching. You probably ten minutes. Enough of that. You'll lose them. You take as long as you want, but, you know, I can't keep them longer than ten minutes, and so.

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Okay, so then I spoke to them and gave them a talk on creation apologetics and answering questions. You know, how do we know there's a God? And where did God come from and where he can get his wife? And, how can we talk about the races? But we're all one race. We all go back to Adam and Eve and dinosaurs.

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The importance of Genesis 1 to 11, foundational to our doctrine. Where does marriage come from and why do we wear clothes and so on. And when I went home for an hour and after the students just sat there pinned to their seats, and then I said, any questions at all, these hands go up. And, what about carbon dating and what about this, and what about that?

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And light from the feather star and so on. And afterwards, the youth pastor came to me and said, what happened? I said, I sat for an hour and listened to you and and not only that, the questions I asked, he said I didn't even know Billy could ask a question like that, let alone, you know, the words that he used.

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And I said, you got to understand. You got to know what they've being taught in the culture, through the media, through the schools they go to. You've got to know what's going on in their head and you've got to make the Bible relevant to them and what the Bible meets the road, you know, connect the Bible to the real world.

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That's not what we're doing in most of our church programs. And a lot of times these young people say church is irrelevant, you know, and what they're being taught, they're is irrelevant because you're not meeting them where they're at, equipping them with apologetics, teaching them to defend the Christian faith, connecting the Bible, to the real world. And I said, when you start to do that, you'll find they'll be fascinated.

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That will invite their friends and others to come. And what I'm saying is that's that's part of what the solution is. Churches need to stop just teaching you what we call shallow. In a way, shallow sort of entertainment sort of approaches. A lot of churches have gone to emphasizing music and praise teams from the front. Now, I music, don't get me wrong on that, but they're not teaching the Word of God, and they're not teaching it to help people develop a true Christian worldview.

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And we need to be equipping people to know how to deal with topics like, gay marriage and gender issues and abortion, because a lot of Christians say, I don't know how to how to talk about those. And when I do them, I'm told I have hate speech or I'm misogynist or, you know, I'm intolerant or whatever. We need to teach them to argue foundationally.

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And that's what that's what this book is all about, that, you know, you've got to understand that gay marriage, the gender issues, abortion, pedophilia, euthanasia, they're all the same problem. They're not different problems. They're symptoms of a problem. The problem is, I have the thinking built on man's word instead of God's word. So the solution is the same.

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And the solution is God's Word. In the saving gospel. In other words, if you want somebody who, believes in gay marriage and transgender and abortion, to change their worldview, they've got to change their foundation from man's Word to God's Word and God's Word beginning in Genesis. Otherwise, they're not going to change their worldview. We have got to equip people to be arguing foundationally.

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And if a church is started equipping people correctly in worldview, which means not adding the Bible to your thinking, but starting from the Bible to build a true biblical worldview that you know why you believe what you do. You know what you believe. You know how to defend the Christian faith. You've got those answers. When they bring up all these questions that they have today.

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And so you're pointing them then to the Word of God in the gospel. That's what we need to do at every age level. And most churches are not doing that. Unfortunately, because most of our Christian leaders have compromised with evolution of millions of years. And once you do that, you don't teach Genesis 1 to 11 is history or you don't teach it at all.

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I even have conservative pastors telling me it's so controversial in our church, I don't touch Genesis one 211 wait a minute. It's the foundation for marriage. It's a foundation for understanding. Sin is the foundation for where death came from. It's why you wear clothes. It's. It's why we need a savior. The. The promise of the Savior was first given in Genesis 315.

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Genesis 1 to 11 gives us the origin of all the basic entities of life in the universe. And that's the foundation for everything. And so we've got to get back to teaching that and for churches to become relevant in our culture. That's what has to happen. Well, you talk about, one of your chapters is wake Up shepherds.

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And so that's a little bit of what you've been addressing here, is we've got to wake up to the fact that we're believing lies, like you're. But I mean, that whole premise says the world's believing a lie. So if you were to sit down with pastors to address the unbelief that's going on, if you had just, let's say, 12 pastors around you, what would you what questions would you ask them or what things would you impart to them so that they could then begin to revive in their own hearts and in their church, in their community, this belief in God's Word.

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Like what? What are the piercing questions? Well, here's what I would say. And in fact, we're talking about this, right? The time when we had, a pastors and Christian leaders conference at the Ark in Canada, and we had 1700 there representing over 600 churches. And I really gave them a talk addressing exactly what you said. And of course, I do this in the book, The Lie as well.

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Because that is the core message of our ministry. Here's what I'd say. The majority of pastors, they've been so inundated with ideas of evolution millions of years, even through their seminaries. A Christian colleges, that that they've been indoctrinated to think that, oh, the age of the earth is not an important issue. I mean, it's not a salvation issue.

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And by the way, it's not a salvation issue. Because the Bible doesn't say, if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus believe in your heart, God has raised him from the dead and believe in six literal days in a young earth. You'll be saved. The Bible doesn't say that salvation is conditional upon faith in Christ, but what you believe about the age of the earth.

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And they therefore think it's not an important issue, but it's a biblical authority issue. Okay. And the reason it's a biblical authority issue is because you don't get millions of years from the Bible, you know, and and you'll find that there's all these different positions in the church gap theory, theistic evolution framework hypothesis, progressive creation. I mean, there's a plethora of different positions on Genesis, but they all have one thing in common, and the one thing in common is adding in millions of years.

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And you see, the problem is once you then lock that door to say, you add millions of years into the Bible and you add it into Genesis, and you reinterpret the days of creation, or have a gap of millions of years, or then add evolution. And God could have used evolution local, but you have no foundation for anything, ultimately, because, you see, Genesis one 211, as I said, is the foundation for all our doctrine.

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It's the foundation for the rest of the Bible. It's the foundation for everything. And once you unlock that door to say you can add millions of years into the Bible, it and in subsequent generations, push that door open further and further and further. Why not add this and well, why not, transgender? Well, why not gay marriage? And when you shut that door and that's what I tell him, we need to shut that door and say we're taking God's word as written in Genesis.

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Then you've got a foundation to talk about all a doctrine, a marriage, the gospel, everything. And and there's another aspect that relates to this in a really big way. And this is a really important emphasis. Not only is believing in millions of years, undermining biblical authority, the idea of a million years comes out of naturalism, which is atheism, when atheists and others, does.

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But they. Oh, based on naturalism saying, oh, where the fossil record come from. Oh, it must have been laid down over millions of years. I didn't see it being laid down. But that's what they believe, right? And they say, well, add that into Scripture. And then if the fossil record was laid down over millions of years, what did Noah's flood do?

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Oh, you can't have a global flood then it's a local flood. But then when you've done that, you've allowed death, disease and suffering and kind of very animals eating each other millions of years before. Man. Now think about how serious this is. The Bible says man's sin led to death. And Romans 822 tells us the whole creation groans because of sin.

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Now when you look at the fossil record, it's a record of death. Billions of dead things buried in rock layers laid down by water all over the earth. It's a record of death, but it's also a record of disease. Because in those bones, as many documented instances of finding cancer, abscesses, arthritis. If you, believing in millions of years as a Christian, then there was canceled before sin and cancer, before God made man, after God made man.

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He said everything was very good. They've got God calling cancer very good. And here's a problem we have with a lot of, people today, particularly younger generations. How can you believe in a loving God with all the death and suffering? They're looking at the present world. See all this death and suffering many of their pastors have said that's going on for millions of years and all this death, suffering, disease.

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And they're saying, how can they be a loving God? But you start from Genesis as literal history. You realize it was all very good. There was no death, disease or suffering. Animals are all vegetarian, says at Genesis one, verse 30. But in the fossil record, there's evidence of animals eating each other, bones in their stomachs and so on.

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And so when you start from God's Word that says death is an enemy and you realize, wait a minute, the fossil record wouldn't be laid out of a million years before man. Well, and a form of fossils, a catastrophic event. You go to cover something quickly to preserve it. How did you get billions of fossils all over the earth?

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In layers thousands of feet thick? How about the global flood of Noah's day? In other words, most of the fossil record is the graveyard of the flood, not the graveyard of millions of years. If you believe in millions of years, you're also attacking the character of God. How can God be a loving God? I mean, Jesus is God and he had compassion on the sick and he raised the dead.

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He healed them. And if if all of that, you know, disease, death is very good. Why did he do that? Why do you ever have compassion on it? No. There was no death, disease or suffering before sin. We messed it up because we and Adam sinned. So it relates to understanding our sin nature, the holiness of God, the judgment of God.

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But at the same time he had to judge sin, and he did with death, so that he could come and conquer death and be raised from the dead and save us so we can spend eternity with him. So it's all tied up with the gospel. It's tied up with the character of God. It's tied up with biblical authority.

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It's so very important. And we've got to recognize what has gone on here. And another aspect of it is that many of our, our pastors today don't understand. When secularists use the word science for millions of years and evolution from and then they use the same word science for technology, many think, oh, if I deny millions of years in evolution, then I deny technology.

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That no word. Science means knowledge. And there's different sorts of knowledge. And when you have knowledge about the past, we call that historical science based on beliefs. That's very different to knowledge in the in the present, where you use observation and experimentation and repeatedly testing to develop technology. And so they need to be taught about the word science, and that there's been a bait and switch to indoctrinate them, which is another reason why they think they have to believe in millions of years and evolution.

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So so it's a very important topic, and it's always been part of the message that I've given. You can't have death, disease and suffering before sin. And when you believe a million years and add it to the Bible, you're undermining biblical authority. Stand back and have a look. We've seen a catastrophic generational loss from the church in the Western world.

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I mean, in England, they're down to less than 4%. In America, less than 9% generations say something is dreadfully wrong. The church gave up biblical authority and allowed generations to be indoctrinated in a secular worldview based on man's word, which is based on naturalism. That's what's really happened. Well, I'm so thankful for the ministry that you've chosen, or the Lord's chosen for you, and bringing this truth to light to to stop the lie in so many people's lives.

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You've been speaking for a long time, as you've said, since 1975, and the world needs this message. The world. There are a lot of people are not fond of the message. But what if you weren't teaching it? I didn't grow up with this teaching in my church. I've been in church my whole life, but no one was talking about this and how to look at.

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Here's what I'm learning in school, but I need to learn this at home and at church to make sure that I have a biblical foundation. Otherwise I'm just fooling myself. But trying to live a Christian life. But it all doesn't make sense and it unravels. So I'm just very grateful to you and I want to honor you and the work that you've done for 50 years to bring this to light.

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And I also want to honor your parents for the way they raised you to have this stand for biblical truth. Well, thank you, Jennifer. And, you know, really, this whole Ministry of Answers and Genesis Creation Museum in Canada is a legacy of parents who taught their children to stand foundationally in God's Word. My father hated compromise. He always saw compromising God's Word with man's ideas is undermining biblical authority.

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So I received that teaching. From my home right from when I was born, basically. And so I understood the importance of biblical authority, not compromising God's Word. We know nothing compared to what, God knows. Think about that. That's the lesson Jobe had to learn. You know, when when Jobe, after God said, you know, this, that, this, that, you know, Jobe tried to justify himself before God, and God said, just listen to me for a moment, Jobe, and ask him all these questions.

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And Jobe says, I now see who you are. I repent in dust of ashes. You are God. How dare we as fallible, finite fallen human beings, use our fallen, fallible, finite minds to try to tell God what he says in His Word is not right or it doesn't mean what he says. Now we need to let God's Word speak to us and stop adding man's fallible ideas into God's Word.

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Absolutely. And it comes down to who are we worshiping? Are we worshiping man's ideas? We worshiping ourselves and what we think is true? And if we think we're on the right path, are we worshiping God and acknowledging his path? Yeah, it's thing you know. It reminds you of this scripture choose you this day, which God you chose. You know, you got to serve the real God, the one true God, or the false gods.

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I mean, that's that's the battle that started back in Genesis three. God said, obey me. Don't eat the fruit of the tree. The devil says, no, you be your own God. You decide truth for yourself. Did God really say and that battle between God's Word, a man's word? It started back then, 6000 years ago. It's the same battle raging today.

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We got to remember that's a battle. It's a spiritual battle. So that's what's going on. And we are empowered by the Lord Jesus Christ and His Holy Spirit to be equipped and to have the right words to say when we have the opportunity to share the truth and to bring people back to the biblical worldview and the biblical foundation, and just to recognize that if something's wrong, it's probably me.

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You know, it's probably us. It's man, not God. Well, and you know what, Jennifer? What's very interesting is that when people really understand how to think foundationally and argue foundationally from Scripture, beginning in Genesis, it's like a light bulb that goes on. And some of them actually say to me, they say it's sort of almost like a conversion experience because they they say it makes so much sense.

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And then you know what you believe, why you believe what you do. You know how to talk to people. It makes all the difference in the world, gives them more confidence in Scripture. And they say it's like a conversion experience is it's a light bulb that goes on. And once you get that key, which is what this book really, really gives people, once you get that key, building your thinking on foundations, knowing how to think foundationally, argued foundationally, you'll never be the same again.

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You never will be. Right? Well, again, thank you for equipping us and being so dedicated to rebuilding the church on the Foundation of God's Word. We are excited about this book. We're excited for all the families who are listening to today's podcast to get Ahold of this book. This newer, updated version, share it with your church, share it with your children, and, just be so prayerful to walk in the truth and not the lie.

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We have to have God's help to do that in this day. Thanks, Janet. Appreciate it. Yeah. Thank you so much for writing the book and for all that you do. Thanks to everybody for being a part of the master Books Tribe and podcast, and we'll see you back on the next episode, which will be next year in 2025.

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We'll see you there. Hey, thanks for joining us today for the Master Books podcast. It was really fun to do this with you today. We hope that you'll take a moment and rank and review the podcast wherever you are listening or watching, so that others can find it more easily. We loved having you here and we look forward to being with you on the next podcast.

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It comes out every other week, Mondays at 5 a.m. see you then!